• By John Hicks

OSAS discussion and logical fallacies...

OK, so someone in a closed OSAS discussion group posted the following. I have only included the most pertinent to be addressed.

“… I'm sure you've heard this argument from the "lose it" crowd or the NOSAS group

“Well the early church never believed in OSAS!”

“The early church never believed OSAS it was only introduced during the Protestant Reformation!”

“What did the early church have to say concerning this?”

Ladies and gentlemen this is the classic “appeal to authority” fallacy:

Yes this argument holds 0 water. Neither have they provided evidence to these bold claims.

I'm not concerned with the “popular opinion” but with what's written in the scriptures. You should as well. Jesus himself said what's highly esteemed before men is an abomination to God. Religions such as Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy base many of their doctrines, at least in part, on what these men wrote. Yes, we can learn from these early church fathers, and some of them were right on most topics, however they were not infallible.

If people were to decide what to believe by examining the "traditions" of the early church, what would they believe about whether Mary was a perpetual virgin? The church father Tertullian denied that she was a perpetual virgin. The church father Jerome argued that she was, and attempted to explain away the references to Jesus' "brothers and sisters" in the New Testament by assuming that they were actually cousins.

If you know someone who uses this bring them here until then NOSAS use more rational arguments on why our position is flawed. God bless”

My initial response and challenge has gone so far unanswered, which was:

“So you attempt to use a logical fallacy to discredit what you perceive to be a logical fallacy. The irony is thick here. Can you guess which one you are guilty of? I will check back on your answer later as I have some farm work that needs tending.”

Despite the silence, I provided this answer:

"The logical fallacy is actually not just one, but two.

The premise that is attempting to be supported here is that OSAS is true and that opponents who cite the absence of church fathers teaching it are in error as they are appealing to authority.

Peter as well as many other scriptures attest to the fact that OSAS is flat on it’s face false so the OP is guilty of attempting to prop up a false premise. That is logical fallacy number one.

Also, the OP is guilty of making a hasty generalization or in other words he jumped to a conclusion without providing all the facts. He agreed with the fact, or at least it appears he did, that the early church fathers did not preach for OSAS. What he failed to do is provide the undeniable fact that the early church fathers actually preached directly against OSAS. I have provided some quotes below. These are not hard to find so it was either laziness or an act of purposeful deception on the OP’s part in order to try to win the argument. This essentially would be the second logical fallacy committed on his end.

Opps, I almost missed the third logical fallacy. He threw a red herring in the mix by bringing up Mary being a perpetual virgin being taught as well as being opposed by early church fathers. This is irrelevant to this issue as it is first, totally unrelated and second, not at all scripturally supported. Oh, wait, neither is OSAS. This should be obvious.

To stay focused on the issue and the facts surrounding the issue I have provided the early church father quotes which clearly show that OSAS was actually preached against. This is fully relevant as supporting evidence but not as the only evidence. The real evidence is scripture itself and I provided Peter’s take towards the very end below. As I mentioned earlier, there are many other scriptures that attest to the fact that OSAS is false, or in more direct words, it is a lie from the pit of hell as it did not come from God. Ping me if you want those.

"On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodom when all the country round was punished by means of fire and brimstone, the Lord thus making it manifest that He does not forsake those that hope in Him, but gives up such as depart from Him to punishment and torture. For Lot's wife, who went forth with him, being of a different mind from himself and not continuing in agreement with him [as to the command which had been given them], was made an example of, so as to be a pillar of salt unto this day. This was done that all might know that those who are of a double mind, and who distrust the power of God, bring down judgment on themselves and become a sign to all succeeding generations." - Clement (30 to 100 AD)

"Let us, then not only call Him Lord, for that will not save us. For He saith, 'Not everyone that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall be saved, but he that worketh righteousness.' Wherefore, brethren, let us confess Him by our works, by loving one another, by not committing adultery, or speaking evil of one another, or cherishing envy, but being continent, compassionate, and good. We ought also to sympathize with one another, and not be avaricious. By such works let us confess Him, and not by those that are of an opposite kind. And it is not fitting that we should fear men, but rather God. For this reason, if we should do such wicked things, the Lord hath said, 'Even though ye were gathered together to Me in My very bosom, yet if ye were not to keep My commandments, I would cast you off, and say unto you, 'Depart from Me; I know you not whence ye are, ye workers of iniquity.''" - Clement (30 to 100 AD)

"I am greatly grieved for Valens, who was once a presbyter among you, because he so little understands the place that was given him (in the Church]. I exhort you, therefore, that ye abstain from covetousness, and that ye be chaste and truthful. 'Abstain from every form of evil.' For if a man cannot govern himself in such matters, how shall he enjoin them on others? If a man does not keep himself from covetousness, he shall be defiled by idolatry, and shall be judged as one of the heathen." - Polycarp (65 to 155 AD), reported as to have heard the Apostle John preach. Some report that he was discipled by the Apostle John.

"And to as many as continue in their love towards God, does He grant communion with Him. But communion with God is life and light, and the enjoyment of all the benefits which He has in store. But on as many as, according to their own choice, depart from God. He inflicts that separation from Himself which they have chosen of their own accord. But separation from God is death, and separation from light is darkness; and separation from God consists in the loss of all the benefits which He has in store. Those, therefore, who cast away by apostasy these forementioned things, being in fact destitute of all good, do experience every kind of punishment. God, however, does not punish them immediately of Himself, but that punishment falls upon them because they are destitute of all that is good. Now, good things are eternal and without end with God, and therefore the loss of these is also eternal and never-ending. It is in this matter just as occurs in the case of a flood of light: those who have blinded themselves, or have been blinded by others, are for ever deprived of the enjoyment of light. It is not, [however], that the light has inflicted upon them the penalty of blindness, but it is that the blindness itself has brought calamity upon them: and therefore the Lord declared, He that believeth in Me is not condemned, that is, is not separated from God, for he is united to God through faith. On the other hand, He says, He that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God; that is, he separated himself from God of his own accord. For this is the condemnation, that light is come into this world, and men have loved darkness rather than light. For every one who doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that he has wrought them in God." – Irenaeus

"Some people act as though God were under an obligation to bestow even on the unworthy His intended gift...For do not many afterwards fall out of grace? Is not this gift taken away from many?" - Tertullian

"It is written 'He who endures to the end, the same shall be saved.' So whatever precedes the end is only a step by which we ascend to the summit of salvation. It is not the final point wherein we have already gained the full result of the ascent." - Cyprian

"And the apostles received them affectionately, saying to them, 'Do not by reason of the shame and fear of men, forfeit your salvation before God, nor have the blood of Christ required of you, even as your fathers, who took it upon them. For it is not acceptable before God, that, while you are in secret with His worshippers, ye should go and be associated with the murderers of His Addorable Son. How do ye expect that your faith should be accepted with those that are true, whilst ye are with those that are false? But it becomes you, as men who believe in Christ, to confess openly this faith which we preach.' "And, when they heard these things from the disciples, those sons of the priests, all of them alike, cried out before the whole company of the apostles: 'We confess and believe in Christ who was crucified, and we confess that He is from everlasting the Son of God, and those who dared to crucify Him do we renounce.'" - Hippolytus

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-11

(OP's name), This should be rational enough, right? Let me know otherwise and we can chat.

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